November 2002
Very special thanks
to Osvaldo Ernesto Pasero who has sent me this great
picture.
Osvaldo writes ... This
picture was taken in William C. Morris district. He was a
great English teacher and a helped introduce football in
Argentina.When I was a child I played so much in the
streets and in the "potreros" or bald lands
where leaves the best players of football in my country:
Grillo, Corbatta, Distefano, Ermindo Onega, Antonio
Ubaldo Rattin, Amadeo Carrizo, Diego Maradona, Ardiles,
Moreno, Kempes, Fillol etc. etc.
I invite
you to visit my art sites:
http://members.es.tripod.de/oepasero
http://www.angelfire.com/art2/index.html
http://oepasero.tripod.com/art.html
http://artpasero.tripod.com/index.html
Thank you so much.
Best regards.
Osvaldo Ernesto Pasero. Buenos Aires Argentina
Happy 60th
Birthday Waggy !!!
Special
thanks to Garry Westoby who has sent me this great email,
where he also points out that Waggy (Ken
Wagstafff) has
his 60th birthday this month !
Yes, he
was simply THE best.
I see he'll be 60 in a few days, so Happy Birthday
Ken.
I barely missed a home match in the great 'Waggy
& Chilton' days, I was just 12 years old when he
arrived at Boothferry Park, so my formative
football-watching days were blessed by my 'Tigers'
boasting this pair, and the other ex-Rotherham
pairing of Ken Houghton (a midfield genius) and
super-dribbler Ian Butler.
I recall Hull City once contracting the three 'inside
forwards' 8-9-10, of Houghton-Wagstaff-Chilton at a
value of £400,000, tying them up as an unaffordable,
hands off, package! I think Joe Harvey (Newcastle,
wanted them). I think they ended up with McDonald -
say no more! Now, it's all silly money!
All who saw that team were blessed with being in the
presence of genius, as the crowds at BP knew. I
watched them play Chelsea (a General Election day
evening) in the 1966 6th round replay - my feet never
touched the ground, it was so packed, and no doubt
dangerous - but I was there!
All my programmes are memories of those magical days.
I was a student in Coventry when Chilton arrived and,
sadly, it wasn't his best move. I believe his health
isn't too good now.
However, Waggy and Chillo were responsible for my
seeing magic for a couple of bob on Saturdays -
thanks to them, and the others. It's a memory I'll
never forget.
Garry Westoby
I wrote to Garry to
thank him for the email and he added...
Yes, I
think I knew at the time I was going to see genius at
work in Ken Wagstaff, and thankfully he had some good
team-mates around him. That was due to the Raich
Carter 'finding' him, the vision of Cliff Britton
(manager) and the willing cheque book of the
chairman, Harold Needler. It was all in place,
somehow. How Div. 1 wasn't achieved is a mystery.
However, somehow it never diminished the magic of Ken
Wagstaff. I'd not swap time or place with any
supporter of any club, past or present, and I'm not
alone on that. I think Ken's genius was only raised
to greater heights by his style and manner; he seemed
to enjoy it all so much, his skill making his
opponents look ordinary, but somehow he never seemed
to gloat, thus getting their admiration, too.
Hope he gets to read th(is) tribute. My greatest
sadness is never meeting him, though I once touched
his sleeve - well, to a 14 year-old it was like
touching God, if you'll excuse the blasphemy.
Garry Westoby
Any regular visitor
to the site will remember the emails sent by Paul McClean on A&BC cards last months (see emails). Well Paul has sent some more classic
'Player Information'...
Hi
again Bob,
RE: the 1971/72 dismal 'Did You Know' facts on the
backs of the player cards. Just a quick note to
continue the merciless pillorying of the poor saps
who made these things.
Although I don't have any more truly abysmal facts,
the other memorable thing you'll note about that
ill-fated edition was that the 'facts' were
accompanied by the most bizarre line pictures, surely
completed by someone either high or blind
drunk. The only other alternative is that the
editor's 8 year old son was asked to do it to save
money.
There's a long list:
* The merely crass:
Alan Mullery - "Alan took over from
Bobby Moore as England skipper" - picture of a
footballer skipping (ooohh, skipper, I get it !)
Bobby Tambling (Crystal
Palace)
- "Bobby was Chelsea's all-time record
goalscorer" - picture of a footballer listening
to an old record player out of which comes a loud
'Goal !' (hmm, so 'record' is the keyword
here). Oh, and the player has the
letters BT on his shirt. Clever.
Jim McCalliog (Wolverhampton
Wanderers)-
"Jim is a goal maker or scorer" - picture
of a footballer standing on a chair appearing to be
hammering on the top of the goalposts. Presumably
this is the 'making' part.
Roger Morgan (Tottenham
Hotspur)
- "Roger is the identical twin of QPR's
Ian" - picture of two cloned footballers and a
guy in front with a foaming beer mug. The guy
has 'Hic' written above him and across the
footballers is written 'seeing double'. When
you have to go to such lengths to explain, is it
really worth it ?
* The truly bizarre:
Wyn Davies (Newcastle
United)
- "Wyn is a superb header of the ball" -
picture of a footballer jumping up. Seems Ok,
but somehow the guy's head has been knocked off and
the ball now sits on his shoulders instead. Try
as I might, I can't work out why this would
illustrate a superb header of the ball. Surely
this is a bad header, isn't it ?
Jimmy Gabriel (Southampton) - "Jimmy is a tough
tackling wing half" - picture of two players,
one tackling the other. The second guy's head
has been knocked off in the collision. Now, I
do see that this one makes more sense (a tough
tackler indeed), but wouldn't Gabriel be arrested for
such violence ? And what is this morbid
fascination with heads being knocked off ?
Wouldn't this be a source of recurring nightmares for
all 10 year old fans ?
Bobby Moncur (Newcastle
United)-
"Bobby is Newcastle's consistent captain" -
picture of a footballer wearing a cap that says
Captain (ah, clever), but standing with his knees
together as if desperate for the toilet.
Actually, since his expression is unaccountably
winsome, I'm guessing that the pose is meant to be
one of embarrassment, and not desperation.
So......how does this illlustrate consistency again ?
* The genuinely incomprehensible:
Brian Labone (Everton) - "Brian has been the
kingpin of Everton's defence for many years" -
picture of two players. The ball is in the
air. One has a machine gun in his hands and is
in the process of filling the ball with lead.
I'm trying hard here, but I just don't get it.
Is 'kingpin' somehow the important word ?
Answers on a postcard.
Doug Fraser (West
Bromwich Albion) - "Doug is Forest's
tough Scottish international" - this one totally
beats me. The picture is of a cartoon Scotsman,
kilt, sporran,tam'o'shanter, the works. Beside
him stands what I can only assume to be an Italian,
who is patting the other fella on the arm and saying
'Bella, Bella'. The Scotsman looks worried (as
well he might). Huh ? I'm guessing we're
supposed to be seeing that the Italian believes the
man in a dress is a woman. But how can that
ever, even in a warped mind, match with 'tough
Scottish international' ??
John Toshack (Cardiff
City)
- "John has brought new menace to Liverpool's
attack" - this is so close to being my absolute
favourite. The picture shows a player running
with the ball, but at the same time leading a large
gorilla by the hand. "Brought new menace",
see ? Truly weird.
Graham Lovett (West
Bromwich Albion) - However, the prize for
the most deviant picture (of the cards that I have,
and boy wouldn't I love to see more) goes to Graham
Lovett. Not because it doesn't fit, not because
it can't be explained, but simply because, especially
alongside the trite "Barry is a Forest
favourite" rubbish, it stands out as being
entirely too personal and utterly too unrelated to
football. Ok, here goes :
"Did you know - Graham has twice recovered from
serious car crashes". What
??!! Not that Graham is speedy, or tough, or
skilful. Not that West Brom fans like to wave
pictures of him from behind the goal. No, the
'secret' we are given about Graham is that he has
twice (and this is particularly notable, since so
many other footballers have managed a feeble one
serious car crash) been close to death. Thank
you.
Graham must have been delighted that so many young
kids were now armed with that. Oh, and the
picture is of a player with tyre marks all across his
body. Truly, truly astounding.
Paul has also sent
me some pictures which I hope over time to include on the
site, including the Liverpool 1971 Cup Final team photo, thanks again Paul.
Re:
Topical Times Football Book No 2
Hi, I
have a copy of this book but couldn't find it on your
site, do you have any idea which year it is from?
Thanks
John Shaw
Yes it is from
1960. See Topical Times
Hi
Bob how many Middlesbrough players have played
for England. Have we ever had two in the same team Many thanks, Glenn Holmes.
Not
knowing the answer to this I asked the members of the Yahoo! Groups
sixtiesandseventiessoccer. Bob Wood offered this answer...
Can a
different Bob have a stab at this question, having
been a Boro fan until the age of about 15.
Hardwick and Mannion must have played together in the
England side at least a dozen times. Cloughie
and Holliday, I am almost sure, debuted together for
the national side. Merson, Gascoigne and
Barmby will have played in the same England side but
probably not while any pair were at the Boro.
Harold Shepherdson, the Middlesbrough trainer, was
also the England sponge-man for many, many years.
Bob Wood
Thanks Bob. Peter
Young from England! The National Football Team added to the this answer....
I
haven't gotten to club affiliations on my England
site yet, but no job is beyond my trusty
database. Below is the complete list of
Middlesbrough players for England--26 of them.
And yes, Bob (Wood) is right on the button, Mannion
and Hardwick played together for England precisely 12
times. Bob also is correct that Clough and
Holliday debuted together; Holliday played in both
Clough's England matches.
While with 'Boro, Gascoigne and Merson played in the
same match for England only once -- against
Belgium in that horrible scoreless draw in that
pre-World Cup 1998 tournament in Morocco (Belgium won
a penalty kicks contest at the end of regulation
time; no extra time in the Moroccan heat.)
Barmby and Gazza never played together for
England. Nor did Barmby and Merson as Boro
players.
Middlesbrough players for England:
R. G. Williamson
A. Common
S. Bloomer
F. B. Pentland
G. W. Elliott
J. Carrr
T. Urwin
W. H. Pease
J. Peacock
G. H. Camsell
M. Webster
R. J. Birkett
M. Fenton
G. F. Hardwick
W. J. Mannion
B. H. Clough
E. Holliday
M. McNeil
A. Peacock
D. Armstrong
G. A. Pallister
N. J. Barmby
P. C. Merson
P. J. Gascoigne
PEC Ince
G Southgate
Cheers once again,
Peter.
Dear
Bob,
Today
by chance I discovered your site. Being a great fan
of the football of the 70`s I just can say that your
site is a MUST for all 70`s footabll fans.
Congratulations!!!! It covered
everything we can imagine about that decade.
Excellent!! Best regards from Armando Manuel Pires
Rocha
Armando,
thanks, I really appreciate that.
Saw
that you quoted from Alec Stock (Luton
Town)'s
autobiography. Amazon and Bol don't seem to
carry it. Do you have a reference for it to
help my search?
Thanks, Andy Farrar
I would very much
doubt that you would find the books at Amazon or Bol,
unless second hand copies come up (maybe that's where you
were looking). I have seen the book at www.ebay.co.uk.
It's called 'A Little Thing called Pride: An
Autobiography' and was printed by Pelham Books in 1982.
He also did 'Football Club Manager' in 1967.
I would recommend www.abebooks.com, or http://www.edenbooks.com/, both of which I see do currently have
the books available.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/bob.dunning/links.htm#commercial lists places you could get
second hand football books.
Thank
you for forwarding (a Bob 70-71 visitor's) details to
me , he was able to provide me with a contact number
for Alfie Conn (Rangers).
This enabled me to speak to him by phone this morning
and he was pleased to accept my Spurs shirt with his
name on it ,I will post it tomorrow. He also
mentioned that he recently attended a Spurs Dinner
Event and was thrilled with the reception he
was given.
It was marvellous speaking to the King of White Hart
Lane and I would like to thank you for making this
possible through the medium of your website .
Regards, Mike Morris
(See
Where are they now ? March
2002)
It's great to have
a success from the Bob 70-71 Pages !
Hello, could you
please let me know , in the late 60`, early 70`s,
there was a black player who was in the side with
Clyde Best. My mates and myself have been trying for
ages to remember the player's name. I hope you can
help.
I have followed Leeds since 1965, the first game I
saw was against West Ham. Hope you can help
Howard Pickard
Well there were several
black players at West Ham at that time. The most likely
player that you mean is John Charles - not the Leeds player (!), who
died earlier this year. There was also his brother, Clive
Charles, and Ade Cocker.
Hello Bob,
I've seen your web site about well known old players.
Ian from George Best Page, recommended your site to
me. Your site is brilliant, I really enjoyed it. I'm
keen on football but I'am only 21 years old, so I
don't remember many interesting situations from the
past of football.
Knowledge about the old players and teams I take
mostly from books, papers, VHS and such web sites as
yours. I would like to know a little more about
English past days footballers. In Poland I have many
problems with information about them.
I think that most interesting facts comes not from
books, but from people who saw all these legendary
events. That's why I write to you. I (see) that you
are a fan of Leeds United. After I saw your website
I'm sure about it. I like that on your web, history
takes important place.
So, I would really like to know how it feels watching
Allan Clarke in action. Another player of
Leeds from '70 who I know is Norman
Hunter.
He played against Poland in 1973 in world cup
elimination games as well as Allan Clarke (I guess).
Norman didn't stop polish forward Lato. After Lato's
passed Domarski and he scored goal for Poland.
Finally, the most important quastion - who is your
favourite player from 60's/70's? Best regards
Chris (Krzysio Bandych)
It is good to hear from
you, thank you fro the nice things you say about my
website. You are right the most interesting history is
that you hear from people who saw the players play.
Videos and books will never capture the feelings that it
inspired in people who saw the match live.
That said, I only saw Norman Hunter play twice - you
would have to mention his worst ever match !!! -
because I am myself only (?!) 39 and was very young when
he was a regular at Leeds United. Also when he was at
Leeds I lived in Maidenhead near London, so I did not go
regularly. This is another reason why I enjoy reading
other people's memories so much. As it happens I was listening to Norman Hunter
just a few minutes ago, because he is now a commentator
on local radio (Radio Leeds).
My favourite 60s70s player is Billy Bremner, because he was the Leeds
captain and he used to battle to win every match. I liked
his toughness and his will to win. He was also a short
player, and I too am only short !!! In fact the same
height as Billy, more or less. At Leeds United nowadays
there is a statue to Billy, which always fills me with
pride when I see it, because he stood for all I liked
about Leeds when I was a boy.
I have to admit I know more about Polish football when
Lato was in the side than now. If you know any
information about Polish players from the 70-71 season, I
would be delighted to include it on the site.
Chris wrote again....
As for my favourite
player / team. I like Bobby
Moore
very much. I read his book 'Modern football' and I
was delighted. Bobby was so involved when he gave
advice for young people there. In 196 -70 England, in
my opinion, had the best defence in a world. I think,
that without Bobby it was not be so excellent. Thanks
to him I support West Ham United.
Jack Charlton (Leeds
United)
also is my hero. I will never forget his great smile
during Italy He was really great.
Bob, you have mentioned Billy Bremner. I have a
question, has he a brother or cousin who won
Champions Cup with Aston Villa in 1980 ?
Jack Charlton was Leeds United's
most played player, and I'm a Leeds United fan. I never
saw him play, because he retired before I saw my first
match, but he's a hero of mine, too.
Bobby Moore was a great player and even greater captain.
There's a lot of talk now that he was never given the
recognition he deserved once he retired, which is true.
Maybe he should have become Sir Bobby ! It was a very sad
day for me when he died.
As for Billy Bremner, he did not have any reletives that
were footballers that I know of. But yes there was
another famous Scottish player, who played for Aston
Villa, called Des Bremner.
I am trying
to find out about Vernon Stokes. Who was the director
of Portsmouth Football Club in the 1950s. How long
was he at the club and any other information about
his links with Hospital Broadcasting Association?
With Thanks Jackie Noll.
I have to admit that
name was new to me, but you are quite right he is one of
the Vice-Presidents of the club. He is listed in the football
information-bible, the Rothmans Football Yearbook,
holding the role of joint Vice-President from 1973-74 to
1981-82, then his name disappears. I'm afraid that I know
nothing about him, though. I will try and ask someone who
might, though I don't think I have a contact who is a
Portsmouth fan ! Anyone reading this know more ?
Bob, Great site. You
must have put a heck of a lot of work into it. It's
been a real pleasure to stroll down memory lane,
especially with the early Seventies side.
I've got a minor quibble on the Doog (Derek
Dougan). He wasn't born in Distillery - no
such place exists. His first club was indeed
Distillery, but this club is based in Lisburn, some
12 miles SW of Belfast.
In fact its official name to-day remains Lisburn
Distillery. Where Doog was brought up or so my
father, who was at the Wallace High School there told
me, was a small suburb of Belfast called Finaghy but
I have no documentation to back this up. This is
mid-distance between Lisburn and Belfast city centre.
Hope this doesn't screw things up.
John Hall
There is
another Bob who does an excellent Wolves site, I'm always
getting his email, and maybe this email was for him, as I
list Doog's birthplace as Belfast. But hey, I'll take the
praise because the site does take a long time to do. Can
anyone offer an accurate birthplace for Derek ?
I am
desparately trying to find videotape of the NASL
Dallas Tornado from 1968-1972.. Can you direct where
to purchase any? It is to be a wedding gift to
my fiance who played for them them....Thanks so much!
(Name withheld in case it was a surprise gift !!!)
That is a very
difficult request for me, the only person I know that can
help you is Dave Brett at http://www.davebrett.com/.
>
> At http://ds.dial.pipex.com/bob.dunning/links.htm#commercial I have listed the only other sites I
know I can rely on to get football memorabilia, but I
have not heard of anything like this being available at
these sites.
I hope you have
some luck finding it.
Hello Bob,
My husband has been collecting Rothmans Football
Yearbooks ever since he was a small boy. He has every
Yearbook except the very 1st year, I believe he
discovered Rothmans on it's 2nd year.
He has always expressed a wish to have a copy of the
1st year and we have exhausted all lines of enquirey-
trying to track one down. I have even been on local
radio to put out an appeal!
Can you help please, do you know where I could track
one down?
Thank you
Ruth Wren
Actually I do
answer this on the Frequently Asked Questions page, but there was something about this
appeal that made me want to give a bit more space to it
here.
The book is not too
rare and can be bought fairly easily, but unfortunately
lots of people (are trying to complete their sets and
trying to buy the first editions. Thus they are very
expensive - way higher than it's real value as a book.
One site to look at is www.ebay.co.uk , which you may have heard of, and is a
place where you have to register and bid in an auction.
They come up quite regularly there, but expect to pay
between 50 to 100 pounds !
Another way of doing it is to go to the website www.abebooks.com which will also show you various
bookshops around the country that sell their second hand
books over the internet. If you cannot call in to the
shop they do also sell over the internet, or by telephone
ordering. But the price, if anything, is more expensive.
To find the book at these sites, just type 'Rothmans'
into the search engines and the list comes up. Both sites
do have copies for sell at present.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/bob.dunning/links.htm#commercial lists other possible sites that could
have copies, but I would expect prices to be similar.
Every so often, you can get lucky and get one cheaper,
but it is rare. I know of a case where someone bought it
for a pound in the local Oxfam !!!
Just a
note to congratulate you on o great web site --
brings back so many
memories.
My wife (Liverpool mad) bought me a lovely
birthday present {41st), a retro leeds shirt with
"smiley" badge and no 7 on the back (Lorimer was my
hero). I wear it with pride .
I also thought you would like to know that most boys
of my age supported Leeds on Anglesey.actually
the fan-base is still very strong.
Keep up the good work.
Marching on together,
Elfed
Cheers for that. I
can't imagine there being pockets of Leeds fans anywhere
but Leeds these days, which is a pity. In fact, even in
Leeds, loads of kids now support Man U !! Thanks for the
praise for the site, I appreciate it.
I've
found you through search engines on the net as I'm
looking for information about the Arsenal squad that
won the European Fairs Cup in 1970.
I've found quite a bit on 'Bob's 70-71 Pages' but
there are a couple of faces and signatures in the
picture that I'm looking at that I can't locate or
identify. The signatures are all there, but they're
not necessarily easy to decipher.
Just wondering if you might be able to point me in
the direction of any websites with comprehensive
information for them all. Ideally I would like to
identify all the guys in the attached picture (just
scanned it in).
Best
David Hatcher
This I can
do. Well, if I cannot name the 70-71 Arsenal Double
winning side without even needing to look up a name, then
I would not be worth my salt as the Webmaster of 'Bob and
his 70-71 Footballers' ! David let me use the picture on
the site, as he'd been trying to solve this for about 8
weeks. The picture and names are now available at Arsenal Fairs Cup.
I got
onto your website as I was wondering whatever
happened to my first football heart throb, Gary
Sprake. I don't know anything at all after he was at
leeds utd and then David Harvey seemed to take over.
I don't know if you are able to help, it's just
curiosity as I never heard of him again.
Thanks, Anna
Gary has his own
page at http://ds.dial.pipex.com/bob.dunning/sprake.htm
He's in Birmingham now, I think he went into social work
of some sort.
Can I just say, it's so good to get an email in support
of him, he's so associated with throwing the ball in his
own Net, everyone forgets that even to this days he's
Leeds' most played goalie.
Bob
What was the common nickname for Gordon
Banks ?
Was
he ever known as 'The Cat' ?
Thanks
Margaret
Ann Barr
'The
Cat' was not Banks, it was another English goalkeeper, Peter
Bonetti, who
was Banks' deputy at England from '66 to '70,
and played for Chelsea. Banks
does have a book out called 'Banksy', so I presume that
was his nickname.
Just read your write
up on Newcastle United.
You are a joker aren't you?
Ha ha.
Paul McKenna
I think Paul's being sarcastic
... but I must admit I still laugh when I read it !
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November 2002 news at the following ...
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